eBay, no more liquor/beer sales. thoughts?

Go on more trips and buy duty free. See the world and all of it's whiskies. Or you could pony up and pay the shipping and VAT at sites like The Whisky Exchange (which I have). Really, I can't believe eBay has allowed this to go on for as long as it has. One thing that always troubled me was the massive amount of empty bottles and boxes/cans there were sold as well, thus leading me to believe that here were people out there buying these and refilling them with lesser whiskies and reselling them at premium prices. A while back I read a story about counterfeit whisky sales and I couldn't help but think some of those great deals I've seen on eBay that had to be too good to be true. Ebay is always a risk and I've been burnt buying other items in the past so I would rather buy my whisky from a trusted individual; not to mention I consume this stuff. What was that I just drank, is it even safe? Just my 2 cents.

There are other online options. The UK stores have great selections and typically carry the specialty bottles. For instance, I just picked up a Boutique-y bottling of Ardbeg that wouldn't have a chance of finding it's way to Oklahoma, let alone ebay. Additionally, while often at premium prices, whiskyauction.com provides a selection that you won't find anywhere else in the world.

The Malt Maniacs have a discussion on this topic at the moment, most agree that it's a good thing as it reduces the chances of picking up counterfeits, unlike online auction houses specialising in whisky who exercise due dilligence in verifying the provenance of whiskies they put up for auction (well, by and large, there have been exceptions to the rule but they're rare).

I think the bigger problem is the sale of empty bottles (of rare and expensive bottlings) - the counterfeiters pay handsome prices for them on eBay, so they can fill them with cheap swill and pass it off as the real thing to unsuspecting buyers. The alcohol ban on eBay stops the most obvious outlet for the sale of the latter, and whisky auction houses won't fall for the obvious fakes so that doesn't really leave many options for the counterfeiters.

There are some legitimate businesses on eBay selling whisky and other liquor, I myself have bought whisky from such businesses but I think that's more a matter of convenience as I could go through their websites and/or by phone or email if I wanted to order something direct so it doesn't really affect me. I for one have never entertained the idea of buying rare whisky on eBay as I'm very aware of the amount of fakes out there.

As @Bigtuna mentioned there's always The Whisky Exchange and other large online liquor retailers that are reliable sources, as are whisky auctions as I've already mentioned.

@systemdown I hadn't realized that counterfeits were such an issue. Was this a pretty well known thing? I found it to be pretty handy when tracking down rare bottles from unsuspecting sellers - specifically the white horse lagavulin 16s - but am wondering now if they are all legitimate.

@ganagati It's a pretty big issue with the counterfeiters. It's the reason that I refuse to purchase whisky off Ebay and won't let my friends buy me whisky off ebay. I'd happily pay a wee bit more for Master of Malt, The Whisky Exchange or Abbey Whisky, etc and know for a fact that I'm getting the real deal.

For most of my life I've been an animal trainer and behaviorist and at one point I had a business that was in essense a breeder referral. You'd give me the details of what sort of lifestyle you had, preference on size of animal, all those good details and what I would do for a small fee was match you with both the breed of dog that you'd be suited for and a reputable breeder who specialized in that breed. Quite often I would have novices hire my services, people who'd done just a wee bit of research and thought they'd found the coolest, rare, unique breed that would be absolutely perfect for them such as a Tibetan Mastiff, Komodor, Tosu Inu, etc. The thing I would have to slam into them and get them to understand is that if something seems to good to be true, it more often then not is. Those breeds are all highly unsuitable for novice owners for various reasons, all temperment.

Same thing with rare and hard to find whiskies. Yes you can occassionaly get that stupidely awesome deal, but more often then not you're likely to get duds. They did a study on highend whiskies in India and found that an insanely huge amount of the highend whisky that people purchased there from hotels, bars, etc was in fact empty rare bottles purchased and then filled with low end whisky, water, soda, urine, etc.

If anyone decides to buy off ebay or similar site (I myself wouldnt) exercise MASSIVE amounts of caution because people have become violently ill off some of the stuff used to replace the real whisky.

I've rambled and ranted enough and if I've offended anyone my apolagies!

@ganagati Yes, the Maniacs had been naming and shaming the counterfeiters for years (the "war on fakes"). Particularly Italian based eBay sellers. See: www.whiskyfun.com/war.html

They stopped updating the descriptions of fakes as the fakers were using that information to get the "one up" on everyone by not repeating the same tricks. Supposedly the fakers have been getting very good at what they do - the classic case of Macallan for example having fakes in their own collections.

I hope your White Horse Lagavulins are the real thing. It's not like all eBay sellers of rare whisky are counterfeiters but it's enough of a problem that most of the Maniacs have been bitten at some time or another - so even arguably the most knowledgeable whisky anoraks in the world are capable of being duped, so what chance for the average Joe?

@SquidgyAsh Nice posting, but I hope I can taste the difference between whisky and urine xD

@Wills Hahaha so do I my friend so do I!! I bust a gut laughing when I saw your post. I do believe if I spent hundreds of dollars on a hard to find bottle of whisky and it was urine (God knows you should discover that in your nosing not tasting) that I would be tempted to do some bodily harm to said individual.

I don't have mixed feelings about this. It's a great thing!

As far as the scam artists go ... they're like high-tech phones; they'll adapt and evolve and continue to rip off the unwary.

@lmann86 WineSearcher.com is a great way to find those "hard to find spirits".

I find it strange that everyone talks about fakes and scam artists on eBay...I've bought dozens of bottles and have never had a fake. Maybe if you're trying to purchase some crazy old Macallan, Glenlivet, etc... I don't think people are faking special Kilchoman's, recent Ardbeg's such as Alligator or Ardbeg Day, etc. Plus if I'm buying from a guy who has had hundreds if not thousands of satisfied customers the odds of getting a fake are slim to none. Personally I find it silly that someone would attempt to buy anything on eBay for thousands of dollars. Too much could go wrong in my opinion. I wouldn't even sell something worth that much unless it was face to face. Just my opinion...

Excellent points @Imann86.

Why did many of the listings on eBay have disclaimers that the contents of the bottle is incidental. It would also say that they were selling the bottle as a collectible bottle and the contents of the bottle is incidental. I thought all these bottles to be fake.

I did make one purchase on eBay, a gift set of 3 Taliskers 200ml 10y, 18y, DE, for $50. It was a fair price and I have had these before, it was good transaction.

Most of the listings were higher than my local store. I thought about selling a few collectable bottles I have but I was very concerned about minors purchasing, I never did.

How would one sell a collectable bottle?

@Benancio you were required by eBay to put that disclaimer in all listings involving alcohol. Its because you have to have a license to sell alcohol but selling it as a collectible and not "alcohol" is how everyone got around it. When it comes to minors, let's be honest, what 18 year old wants a $100 bottle of rare scotch? I was drinking cheap beer and cheap mixing vodka when I was in college. Plus, if you've ever ordered from an online retailer you don't ever get carded either.

@Imann86, Funny, You have a point there about the minors, I guess I used it as an excuse not to sell. I didn't think all the adds had the disclaimer though. I only bought once and I was happy with my purchase.

Argh! I had a full reply written and lost it....

Synopsis - Thanks for the replies, everyone. Assholes that ruined ebay suck. What a wonderful opportunity for truly free market commerce absolutely wasted. I think the generic scotchs were probably legitimate, and will keep my fingers crossed that the white horse bottles I came across are real. Sellers simply listed them as Lagavulin 16 and were unaware of the difference.

Benancio - selling booz has always been against ebay policy, but they were lax and allowed the sale of specialty bottles with incidental contents. I've sold a few bottles using those guidelines without issue.

All you guys that say some of the whisky sold on ebay are fake?Is there anyone out there that has actually bought one? please let me know,and if you did you would have had a money back guarantee from ebay so where is your problem,when all said and done fake Macallan turned up at Christie s auction house some time back, it is only the jealous retailers that started to put doubt in peoples minds as thousands of bottles of good whisky was being listed and sold on ebay every week.So dont knock it

@neilmorrison I don't think anyone was personally knocking on it on purchasing whisky from ebay, more just highlighting the dangers of doing so. For every dishonest seller there are many honest sellers, but I do highly doubt that Ebay would refund the money to a buyer if someone was to complain that the whisky they purchased off Ebay wasn't what was listed as the sells are supposed to only be for the bottle and not the contents. Or at least that's the way of it in the US last I looked.

Connosr however does welcome members from every aspect of the whisky industry, from new whisky lovers to seasoned veterans to bloggers to whisky sellers and whisky ambassadors. At not point have I seen anyone insult anyone from a opposing stores, distilleries, etc. Connosr is more like a giant whisky family. I could be reading the tone of your post wrong as it's hard to read tone on the net, but it does seem like you're upset that many of the members on here have recommended that you shouldn't purchase whisky off ebay, especially without a really good knowledge on how to spot fakes, bad bottles, etc.

I understand that you sell whisky, but maybe you would agree that someone new to whisky shouldn't be trying to purchase high end bottles off a site like Ebay until they have some more experience spotting fakes? Please don't take this the wrong way as I'm not trying to be rude, but it did feel like you were a little upset/irritated in your post. So if I do cause offense my apologies.

Seems to me SQUDIGY ASH that you like to wear two hats you categorically said in your previous post you would not buy whisky on eBay now your saying buyers would not be refunded .As a seller i can assure you that buyers will be refunded even if they did not like the colour of the label or the bottle any old excuse will get you a refund,and that is a fact hope that has cleared that point up..

@neilmorrison Bring the anger down my friend. If you notice there isn't anyone running around shouting the praises of Auction sites either. I don't see how I'm wearing two hats. I've never purchased whisky off of Ebay, I've heard too many horror stories from people I trust. As was mentioned in a previous post Malt Maniacs, has done "name and shame" the fakes for years. As do several other whisky people that I respect. If you also follow the forum discussions you'll notice one or two threads where people have had problems with auction houses and names were named. There is no bias going on here where the forum is targeting the little guy. It seems to me that selling whisky online, I'm going to hazard a guess and go with Ebay, that you're not the most impartial of people in this discussion, sorta like the person who was stating that whisky stones were awesome for whisky drinkers and didn't affect the flavor profile then it comes out that they're producers of whisky stones.

You've laid out your argument that there is no way for you to get hurt by purchasing whisky off ebay, however many other posts both here and Facebook would seem to argue otherwise.

As I've mentioned earlier - winesearcher.com is a great way to help locate any wine, or spirit.

@lmann86 I think it's a shame Ebay have stopped selling alcohol. I am sure there have been people stung by rogue sellers but that's the same of anything you buy 2nd hand. Used car salesmen are hardly held up as paragons of virtue. I think if you go in with your eyes open and live by the"if it seems too good to be true" rule you will be ok. I have purchased the odd bottle from ebay with no problem. I have never actually met anyone who has been stitched up by buying fake Whisky on eBay. I feel sorry for anyone who has been tucked up like a kipper.

Crooks operate at every level and in every sector and whilst protecting the public is a good thing it isn't without downside.

I want to buy a bottle of Galileo (for example) and Ebay would have allowed me to do so without paying even more through online sellers who now know there are no other avenues available to me. Yes, people I'd buy small release bottles and resell for a higher price but then Masterbof Malt are selling Laphroaig 2012 Origin at £129.99 when it originally ost £45.

Buyer beware but also et common sense prevail. Let people take a chance if they want to. There are buyer protections in place and those that don't want to don't have to use Ebay.

That's just my tuppenceworth.

@tjb I would like to point out my typo above... I am using an iPad (enough said).

It was supposed to read...yes, people WOULD buy small release bottles instead of "I'd".

They wouldn't tell me why, just kept saying it's their policy and no manager called me back to say why either. Whisky bid has the potential to be better anyway. Listings are free, pictures are free, reserves are £1, 7% seller fees and 0% buyer fees. Once word of this site gets around, they will hopefully have some rare and collectable bottles for sale!

Here is my thoughts. I can go directly to my PLCB and have them send the alcohol. Why doesn't ebay just have a policy that it has to be sent from a LCB facility and it must be delivered to a LCB facility in the area you want to send. The individual receiving would have to pick it up and provide I.D. Although for some it may be a hassle, but if you want it bad enough it is the most legal way to do it. I have 3 unopened woodford reserve kentucky derby that I was hoping to sell. they are collector items and since ebay banned it, I have no way of selling them. I understand about the underagers trying to obtain, but I think shipping from a LCB facility to another facility legally would be the best bet.

@Jinglebell, in order for that to happen logic would have to be applied to Canada's liquor laws... Don't hold your breath!

I don't have a problem at all with eBay stopping liquor sales. I agree with SquidgyAsh about the potential of counterfeiters on eBay. If you are fishing, you go to the lakes where the fish are. eBay is a pretty big lake. Counterferters are the fishermen, Dangle the bait, wait for the bite, and set the hook.

@PeterG7, couldn't that be applied to any product sold on eBay? There are counterfeiters producing all kinds of fakes, products which are far more subject to counterfeiting than whisky. Designer bags, wallets, watches etc. Here in Asia, those types of fakes are quite abundant and often almost indistinguishable from the real deal. If eBay claims it is no longer allowing liquor sales because of counterfeiters than why is it still allowing the sale of other products which are also faked and sold for relatively large sums of money?

@CanadianNinja Good point. You're right, there is the potential for all types of counterfiting. Perhaps, it is the concern that what's in the bottle could be harmful or fatal if injested.

meh