NilsG started a discussion
12 years ago
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12 years ago
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I've never given consideration to the bottle at purchase time. Only what's inside.
Having said that, sometimes I find myself enjoying the shape or feel of a bottle I own every now and again if there's something different or unique about it. And of course, that sound as a cork is removed from a bottle, especially the first time, is just heavenly.
I highly doubt that the shape of a bottle will make a difference to the whisky inside as long as it has a good seal, but I may be wrong. Maybe over 50 or 100 years though, a bottle with more surface area of glass inside might produce more "OBE" (old bottle effect) - particularly as glass is not 100% inert. Purely speculation though. I don't know if it the effect would be measurable.
12 years ago 0
While I never judge a whisky on its packaging, I too like a nice bottle. I love the look and feel of the Malts of Scotland bottles (cognac shaped, just like Greenore), the HP bottles are nice and I'm a big fan of the look of the Auchentoshan bottles (but I may be somewhat prejudiced there...).
12 years ago 2Who liked this?
Neither the bottle nor the label carry any weight in my purchase decision.
That's not to say that I don't enjoy looking at the wide variety of shapes and labels once the bottles are aligned on the shelves of the backbar. In particular I like Old Pulteney bottles.
I read recently that 90% of whisky purchases by non whisky drinkers (for gifts) are determined by the bottle or its label. Over a four year period, I have noticed that some whisky drinkers will admit that they are attracted to a particular whisky because of the bottle shape or label. Hands down, the Glenrothes bottle and its plain label attracts the most attention. On the negative side, people generally seem to be put off by blue labels (Bruichladdich's turquoise being the exception).
12 years ago 3Who liked this?
@NilsG I absolutely believe that the shape and style of a bottle matters. In my personal tasting notes I have 5 categories where I rate out of 6 possible points: nose, taste, finish, balance/complexity, and aesthetic experience.
I believe that drinking whisky is an aesthetic experience to which the bottle shape, color and label play a part. And I don't think that 1/5th of my score dedicated toward aesthetics is unfair or extreme.
The reason that you have these companies spending all this money on repackaging and revamping the label (and bottle) is because it does matter to customers. Take Highland Park, Glenmorangie, and Macallan. I actually liked all of their old style bottles from the 90's much better (and Highland Park has been through two different styles of bottles since then).
Like systemdown I have never bought a bottle based on how it looked. However, there are many a night where I will pull out a bottle (especially if friends are over) because it looks cool.
Finally, I believe that the shape can contribute to oxidation. Smaller squat bottles (like Kilhoman, Bruichladdich or Redbreast) create more surface for the whisky to interact with the air inside the bottle especially as the liquid approaches half way. I believe taller and more slender bottles resist oxidation slightly better once opened.
12 years ago 3Who liked this?
I'll admit to buying a Dalmore partly because I think they have one of the handsomest bottle designs out there. On the other hand, Laphroaig has one of the plainest presentations, with labels that look like they were run off on a photocopier.
But I'll give you one guess as to which whisky I like better.
12 years ago 2Who liked this?
Just as a side note: the rounder (bulkier) a bottle the higher the volume to surface ratio. A sphere has the biggest volume relative to its surface. This means that whisky in bulkier bottles is oxidized faster (larger surface to the gas phase than slim bottles), but reacts slower with the glass (I am assuming that this is anyway just the case for peaty whiskies due to their phenols).
12 years ago 1Who liked this?
Not a factor in determining if I will purchase the whisky or not, but the Octomore bottle blew me away the first time I saw one. It was just so different from anything I had ever scene for Scotch. While it is a beautiful presentation, it is not necessarily practical since I can't see how much of whisky is left in the bottle.
12 years ago 2Who liked this?
@NilsG No the bottle design does not effect the purchase. For me weather they are tall and slender or short and stout its whats inside that counts, however that doesnt mean that bottles arent aetheticaly pleasing and that marketing departments dont take advantage of this fact for sales hype. Another factor for me is space in my cabinet, tall and short bottles have to fit well. :)
12 years ago 0
Personally I love the way that the that Glenfiddich Snow Phoenix and the Buffalo Trace Antique Collection bottles look i.e. Stagg, Weller and Handy among others. However whenever I see a really flashy bottle that makes me go "Ooooh!" I immediately start researching the contents inside. I generally think that if a company has spent lots of money making a bottle really pretty and cool looking then I want to see why the liquid inside it can't sell itself.
12 years ago 0
I'm a whisky beginner, so maybe that's why I'm dazzled by the bottle design, in lack of better knowledge of what's inside. Although I wouldn't include the bottle in the judgement of the whisky myself, I think it is a valid thing to do. The bottle/label/cork are, unlike the nose and taste, optional aspects to enjoy. And since I'm paying for the design regardless, I prefer if I can enjoy it. It adds to the whole experience.
@Nock I agree. Enjoying whisky is a visual thing too, and even is the bottle is an object separate from the whisky, just as the glass it's a part of the whole. I wanna smell from the cork and bottle too, cause it's all different. It's funny that your pic is an Ardbeg 10, it was in fact after admiring a bottle of Ard10, which I bought yesterday, that I started this thread. It's simple, has a nice dark coloring (even though that might be to hide how pale the whisky is?), and the label matches the taste well. Both the body and neck just feels good to hold. The only negative thing I can say is that the plastic cap on the cork feels cheap, and the back label is translated to Japanese on my bottle (it takes away from the whole "I'm Scottish!" that the rest of the bottle says).
12 years ago 2Who liked this?
The Jura bottles are very pleasing to look at and I bought the Prophecy based on that and a few good reviews. Old Pulteney has great bottles and some great whisky and my first purchase of the 12 yr old wa based pretty much on the bottle appeal. Otherwise I generally check all the Connosr reviews and consult the gurus (Murray, Serge and Ralfy) before I buy. I still like a regular straight up and down bottle a la Talisker, Macallan, Lagavulin etc. they are the easiest to grip and pour and @Mammon could be right that less surface to air equals slower oxidization. Although a half full bottle of Bruichladich and a half full bottle of Macallan should have the same amount of air and the same volume of whisky just in a different configuration. Anybody have the definitive science on that?
Bottom line: a good whisky is a good whisky no matter what kind of bottle it's in and I'm sure there are some very bad whiskies in some very pretty bottles.
12 years ago 1Who liked this?
Personally I prefer darker glass, living, as we do in the U.V. capital of the world - In the short term, I sure the glass makes little or no difference, but imagine buying a bottle of Glengoyne, in Western Queensland, that had sat for 10 years, getting blasted by the morning sun. I was familiar with this Whisky but the sun had stripped this bottle of any texture it had and believe me it had been a mighty fine drop; in black or dark green glass I'm sure the Whisky would have been less effected!
The only reason I purchased this bottle was that it was an older version at 43 %, 8 or 10yrs. before Glengoyne decided to lower the abv. to 40%: We had loved the older 43% and found the 40% version to be a bit 'so so'.
12 years ago 0
While certainly not the most important thing when considering a new purchase, I do have to admit the decanter styled bottle and rice paper label, made buying Hibiki 12 year old and easy decision.
I'm in complete agreement with WhiskyBee, though when I hit thumbs up, the stupid touchscreen on my phone redorded it as a thumbs down. Dalmore has stunning packaging, but I'll take a Laphroaig over it any day!
12 years ago 0
@MacBaker62 aaaah, the Hibiki, what a perfect match of bottle and taste! I recently review it and then Hibiki's old senile grampa, Suntory Royal 12. While Hibiki back the bottle with a dram that's even better, Royal's bottle writes huge checks its whisky can't pay. I'm curious tho, why Suntory makes these flash bottle designs for blends, while Yamazaki gets a bottle as simple they get, with a plastic screw cap.
12 years ago 1Who liked this?
@A'bunadhman oh in Queensland you should probably store valuable whisky in a thick led cabinet. I lived in north Qld for some time. Forget a pair of dark red undies on the line outside for a weekend and they will turn baby-pink.
@WhiskyBee I was sitting in a bar the other day trying to decide which bottle to get next. Had a wonderful glass of Bruichladdich, and then also very nice Dalmore 12. Both are good, but the Bruich was a notch more pleasing on my palate, something inside me is pulling towards the Dalmore. I tell myself that I don't have a whisky of Dalmore's style in my possession and that the Bruich is close to the Ard10 I just got. But could it be that the Dalmore bottle, or the super boring label on the Bruich are having an undesired effect on my judgement?
12 years ago 0
@BlueNote It is hard science that larger surface means faster reaction kinetics.
12 years ago 0
@NilsG When I 1st started out I too enjoyed the looks of a bottle (in particular the Balvenie - quite masculine).
But now - it's not quite as important as it used to be ie: I used to feel that the Aberlour bottles were feminine - that is until I became a big fan of that distillery.
12 years ago 0
@NilsG, your mileage may vary, but it took a while for me to warm up to the Dalmore 12. Until the bottle level went down a bit, it was the waxiest whisky I'd ever tried -- like drinking a melted candle. After a couple of months, and with 1/3 of the bottle gone, it's opened up nicely. The malt's come to the fore, and the wax has receded (although a good amount of wax remains in the finish).
Which Bruichladdich did you try? I'm guessing the Laddie Ten, as it fits your "boring label" description. (Yeah, it looks like a bottle of industrial cleaning solvent.) But for me, it's the far superior whisky, and the one I'd recommend.
I'd go for the Bruichladdich first, then the Dalmore down the road. Neither will put much of a dent in your bank account.
12 years ago 0
@Mammon. Yeah, I kind of suspected that was the case.
@WhiskyBee, @NilsG. I totally agree on the Dalmore 12. It took a long long time to open up. I had mine for about 6 months and ended up giving about half of it away. I found it over sherried and quite bitter on the finish. The Laddie 10 needs a little time too and a few drops of water, but definitely worth the wait. After the first couple of drams are out of the bottle it starts to loosen up, but still needs some time in the glass before drinking. It's good, I just got a second bottle for down the road.
Just reread your post @NilsG. It appears you are talking about a different Bruich, not the Laddie 10 which is nothing at all like Ardbeg 10. Which one are you referring to? Cheers.
12 years ago 0
Bottles are over rated, I prefer stoneware flagons and ceramic decanters ;)
12 years ago 3Who liked this?
In all seriousness, whilst I am a sucker for the Hibiki bottles (very beautiful IMO), I generally like things kept simple perhaps even a little austere, something that would look at home on a crofters table in the Highlands.
12 years ago 1Who liked this?
Yes the the more surface in contact with air, the faster the process. But for some whiskies it seems you'd rather prefer a rapid oxidation, right? like as you describe, Dalmore taking months to open up, and I'm just finding out my self how much the HP 12 develops over time since I opened my bottle. I'm even trying to speed it up by opening the cork and letting in fresh air now and then. I wasn't too happy with the taste of the HP12 when I first opened the bottle, but over a month later it already shows significant improvement. Maybe HP12 needs a short stubby bottle instead.
The Dalmore I had was from a bottle with about a 3rd left, so maybe it had already opened up properly. I found it very nice tho.
@BlueNote Good thing you asked! I thought the bottle was simply called "Bruichladdich", cause apart from that it only said "PEAT" and a long story in tiny text that I presumed was an explanation of how they get their peat or something. I was in the middle of a conversation and didn't pay enough attention. Well I look looked up the bottle and first now realise that PEAT was the actual name hahaha...I'm a retard.... The name is quiet well describing the nose and taste tho.
12 years ago 0
That's good to know @NilsG. I've been tempted to try the Bruichladdich Peat but keep passing it up for other priorities. I think I will do it now. The Dalmore 12, despite my experience, gets a lot of good reviews and is considered to be good value. I should give it another chance...after I have acquired the other 50 whiskies on my wish list. It could take a while.
12 years ago 0
@Jean-Luc Don't forget you will need an eye patch, wooden peg leg, and a privateer to go with stoneware Flagons and ceramic decanters. :)
12 years ago 2Who liked this?
I agree that the bottle should match and shape the experience of the drink inside it, and that IS important. I can't think of drinking Ardbeg without looking at the dark and mysterious green bottle that it comes in. mmmnnnnnnn....yummy
12 years ago 2Who liked this?
@mywhisky The big question is in my cabinet all the different shapes of bottles, Glenfiddich & Glen Grant Family reserve are triangle shaped & Bruichladdich are shorter except for the Octomore which like the Glenmorangie are tall and skinny. Then throw in a Ballentines or a Johny Walker Green lable those are square. One needs a really big cabinet to hold all the bottles and the important content there in. :)
12 years ago 0
I received some sage advice when I was a young man, "don't buy the round bottles, they roll under the bed."
12 years ago 2Who liked this?
@paddockjudge Lol. Thats good advice, the square one don't roll they slide. Then there is the Singleton one that is odd kidney shaped. :)
12 years ago 0
I have a couple of good quality decanters, one large and square (squat) the other same shape, from the same maker (Webb Corbett) but smaller, comfortably holding close to 400ml. while still leaving a sensible, large air-space.
When I open a bottle and it seems at all locked-up, it goes into the large decanter and with the large air-space and ground glass stopper a month will mellow even the most reluctant of Whiskies - Usually Cask Strength and quite often Whiskies that have been bottled for a long time.
I use this method religiously and am quite sure that a month or so in large glass will be benificial to any Whisky: If I find that after a month (or so), the Whisky is drinking superbly, most probably I will fill a 200ml. for later and drink the whisky; ocassionally, I have filled 2 x 200ml., less often the small decanter, with the level right up.
This, for me, is part of the mystique of the 'Whisky Experience' and is fun! - Drinking a'bunadh that has had a few months in large glass is truly a wonderful taste sensation, ditto Laga. 12yo. Cask etc. It's a long list!
There is nothing quite like a glorious Whisky in a beautiful crystal decanter on a white tablecloth...nothing!
Slainte!
12 years ago 2Who liked this?
I've never bought a whisky because of the bottle. However, some of my favorite bottles are Talisker, Lagavulin, Highland Park, Aberlour and Balvenie.
12 years ago 0
How important is the bottle and it's design to you? Have you ever bought a whisky based fully or partially because of its bottle?
To me the bottle matters. Not a great deal, but still, it's a part of the whole experience. I want the bottle to match what I feel when I drink the whisky. But I don't want really want it to affect my selection when purchasing a whisky. But I'm sure it does, at least to some extent.
Finally, could the shape of the bottle have any actual effect on the characteristics of the whisky?