Vertical H2H - Redbreast/Powers/Redspot/M&M

@RikS thanks much for your very nice report. I had never before read the information about the mash bills for Irish Pot still whiskey and am interested in knowing the identities of the other grains included in each whiskey. If it were up to me wheat would never be included. Corn blends in and oats are delightful. That is one very big range of unmalted barley being included at anywhere between 30% and 70%. I very much like that whiskey rating scale for personal use, but there would be total confusion if one were to use it on Connosr, while 99% use the current convention.

I rate my experiences of those whiskeys: 7-7- * -not had-not had-4- not had. * for Powers Johns Lane 12 yo = 4 when first opened, and 8 after 6 months of open bottle air time. Haven't had M & M, Redspot, or Redbreast 21. I hope to taste these all one day. Give your bottle of Powers 12 lots of air and watch it blossom into something much better.

You might have included this post under Epic Tastings. My guess is that if you had done so half a year from now onwards it would be more likely referenced by future readers than as a separate discussion.

Great post, very informative! Thank you for sharing. I enjoy this style of narrative and especially enjoy this one in particular @RikS....great picture!

Am I the only person who doesn't believe Redbreast 21 is an excellent whiskey?! The standard 12 YO is a fine dram, the CS 12 YO is anywhere from good to great depending on the batch, but the bottle of 21 YO which I own is a dud.

L324531256 9:40

Floral, almost soapy on the nose with a hint of Werther's. Silky, bitter-sweet on entry with orange pith and cardboard dominating the light fruits and berries. The dry finish is short to medium (thank goodness) highlighted by wooden tongue depressor and butterscotch Life Savers.

This bottle was purchased in August of 2018 and opened not long afterwards. I initially scored this 72 points, but it has improved and now clocks in at a pedestrian (I'll be generous) 80/100. Definitely the worst value for money for any whiskey/whisky I've ever purchased. I definitely need a second opinion; perhaps it is a compromised bottle.

@paddockjudge did we taste that RB 21 when I saw you in April? If so I don't remember it.

@Victor, I too could not recall with certainty. After checking my notes from that day I can confirm that we did not have any Redbreast 21 YO. I may have brought the bottle with me, but like so many other bottles, we did not pour from it. I wait for the day we eventually get into @Nock 's series of Ardbeg beauties, the box full of bottles from which we did not partake at our gathering last year.

@paddockjudge @Victor

Isn’t it amazing when you are so spoiled for choice that you have to leave so many premium spirits unpoured?

@RikS thanks for sharing this. I’m probably the only person in the world who really enjoys Green Spot. Using your scale, I’d rate it 7, and I’m not normally one for 40% abv offerings, but GS works for me. I’m hit and miss on the “standard” Redbreast 12, having tasted some that was incredibly flat, and some that was good-ish. Perhaps I’m partial to Green Spot because there’s less sherry influence in there than in many other Irish Single Pot Still offerings: GS uses first fill bourbon, second fill bourbon and “ex-sherry” (first fill? Refill?) casks. I’m finding my preferences moving away from wine influences in whisky (and whiskey) as it seems to me that the flavours are often poorly integrated, and that’s in the best circumstances, when sulfur hasn’t ruined the whole party.

@OdysseusUnbound like you I rated Green Spot a "7" on that scale referenced above. So you are not alone in liking it. So far I have preferred all of the Green Spot I have sampled to the Yellow Spot I have sampled.

@Victor The Yellow Spot I had needed a lot of “coaxing” to showcase its flavours. Time, air, and even a little water were needed. The Green Spot is lovely as is, right out of the gate.

@RikS thanks for the detailed notes and descriptions, what a rare opportunity to taste so much of Midleton's output. I agree with you on your assessment of Redbreast 15, it's really nice.

I would love to be able to try the method & madness Chestnut cask, I've been curious since I've heard of it's release, I believe the Teelings are experimenting with Chestnut casks too. I'm not sure more NAS heavily sherried Redbreast is necessarily a good thing especially using PX, is anyone else tired of PX in everything?

@OdysseusUnbound I quite like Green spot over Redbreast 12 which was good but I felt was lacking something. You should try Power's John Lane which I think suspect might be up your alley, it is mostly ex-bourbon/refill cask with just a little sherry thrown in. It's a bit feisty but I find myself enjoying my bottle more and more, I don't think a sample would do it justice, it`s also priced well at 58$ 46% abv which is rare at that price point.

@Victor or anyone else interested in the details of production, here is a link to a blog from Blackwater Distillery, the proprietor has done interesting research about Single Pot still and the different "mashbills" that we're traditionally used in this genre.

blackwaterdistillery.ie/response/

There's three more articles called our stolen heritage (bold I know) but they are really interesting and shows how the consolidation of the Irish whisky industry has caused a kind of standardization of the style.

blackwaterdistillery.ie/our-stolen-heritage… blackwaterdistillery.ie/heritage-2/ blackwaterdistillery.ie/heritage-3/

I know Midleton makes a couple of different styles of Pot still whisky based both on the mashbill and the final cut during distillation, here's a little blurb lifted from whisky.com Midleton uses triple pot still distillation. The number of pot stills has been increased from four to seven, each with a capacity of 80,000 litres. After having been run through three pot stills, the spirit has a strength of 83 - 85% ABV. Since Midelton produces different single pot still whiskeys with different characters, the distillation procedures aren't the same. They vary with regard to the separation of the middle cut from the foreshots and feints, so the new spirit contains sometimes more, sometimes less strong aromas. There is the "Heavy Pot Still" (HMP for heavy modified pot) where the middle cut is separated very generously, "Light Pot Still" (LMP for light modified pot) where the middle cut is separated very cleanly, and in between there's MMP (medium modified pot), also known as Midleton Mod Pot. Gradations in these different separations (LMP1 - HMP4) bring in additional variety.

Grain whiskey is produced by continuous distillation in column stills. Midleton has five old column stills and six newer, larger column stills. The distillate runs through different stills during one distillation run. The first still, called "beer column", creates an alcohol of approximately 74%, which is then further purified in the next still (extractive distillation column), where its alcohol content is reduced back to about 25%, before the distillate reaches its final strength of about 94.4% ABV in the third still (rectifying column). This continuous distillation is only halted from time to time for cleaning or maintenance work.

@cricklewood I’m also tired of PX, as I find it’s almost always cloyingly sweet. I feel like a lot of the time it’s a gimmick to hide/cover up flawed spirit. As for Powers John’s Lane, it’s not available near me, unfortunately....

@OdysseusUnbound My bad I meant to say Power's Signature! I got turned around with all the different expressions. Signature doesn't get a lot of love but I've found it to be pretty solid, I loved being able to do a side by side with Yellow Spot and next weekend I'll be able to do the same with Redbreast. I think the ability to have this as a benchmark to what a basic pot-still whisky should or could taste like invaluable.

As for PX I agree it's often the sheen or overcoat on ho-hum spirit, as I progress I like being able to taste the difference ins make and distilleries and the uniqueness each producer brings to the table, the use of PX (sherry in general by extension) tends to wipe that tout. There are exceptions, I've had some really good PX cask stuff but I think it is from judicious use, this could apply to any number of other cask finishes.

@cricklewood - How interesting! I always assumed that pot still was malted and unmalted barley exclusively. What are the odds on the 5% other grain being corn?

Excellent articles - thank for the links. They perhaps show a strong link between the Irish whiskey of the past and the bourbon of today?

@RianC it's very plausible that the 5% is corn although some of what I've read indicates a mix of grains to avoid one from dominating the flavour.

I think the agricultural roots of whisky making in both places are quite apparent in these styles, also their disdain for the tax-man

@Victor thank you - I had completely forgotten about the 'epic tasting' thread and didn't know how to fit it into the 'review' section, so I'll be sure to do that on the next H-2-H event (which I'm looking forward to, as I believe it will be the range of Benromach)!

@RianC I think that these ones actually don't use the 5% option but are only un-/malted barley. I don't know the ration between those though, and they didn't want to say :)

@paddockjudge I am glad (maybe?) to hear that you are not a fan of RB 21.

I have long desired to try Redbreast 21yo . . . and we didn't try it at our tasting in May of 2018. We did do a Redbreast 12yo Cask strength vertical with B13, B14, B15, and B16. If memory serves B15 was the clear favorite by all to tried it. And I think B16 came in last. I am a huge fan of the Redbreast 12yo CS. I love collecting each new batch. Since the 21yo has received so my acclaim it only seems natural that I should try it . . .

But from all of the reviews I have read it doesn't seem like a bottle I would take to. I am fairly certain @Victor has shewed me away from that bottle in "his" stores. That is the only place I have seen it for under $300.

My guess is that it would be right up your alley and perhaps one we could agree on. Knowing that you have not enjoyed your bottle on further halts my pursuit. This will have to be a bottle I try before I buy.

@Nock, I hope to get a taste from another bottle of Redbreast 21 YO. For me this is not a bright whiskey. RB 12 YO CS is a bright and pointed whiskey, and yes the 2015 release is excellent. Another of those batches was also VERY much to my liking, without my notes at hand I can't recall which one it was. RB 12 YO CS is from planet earth; RB 21 YO is from a completely different galaxy.

@paddockjudge @Nock I really wish you could have tasted from the bottle I did! In fact, I wish you had for two reasons: 1) if you agreed that it was as good as I found it, it'd be delightful to share that experience among friends and 2) maybe you still didn't buy into it, which would be a very interesting way to understand experiences and appeals to different palates.

It's pretty helpful to see these other impressions of it though, cause this is a bottle I might well splash out on (here it's £159 standard, but often drops down to £125/115) - but would be terribly disappointed if picking up a dud!