Glenfiddich XX Project not a 20 y/o whisky??!?

Project XX ("twenty") is the result of one of the most ambitious malt experiements undertaken by Glenfiddich.

Hmmm, can see what you're saying on this @Dreambuie

I hope in the next few years we will be able to laugh at this NAS trend the same way we are now laughing at the 90s flavored vodkas.

Well, let's assume that the rise of NAS-whisky is predominantly due to low stocks of aged-whisky.

It stands to reason that distilleries have increased production to meet demand, so in a few years time there will be plenty of 10 year + whisky in their warehouses. At which point age will be back on the marketing agenda, and NAS will slip away quietly like someone who just broke-wind in crowded room.

Or get perpetuated since it's cheaper with no cost for storing but sells high due to creative marketing..

Personally I would not interpret the XX as meaning 20 years old

I also would not assume that XX stood for 20yo whisky - BUT only because I am aware of all the NAS bottles that are being released now! I agree that it is deceptive for the casual whisky drinker. After all the 25yo Glenlivet is listed as XXV on the label. I could easily understand a Glenlivet fan who might be taken in to think this was the new XX or 20yo bottle. If they had NEVER released an age statement bottle with an Roman Numeral I might be less incensed. Seriously, compare the XXV and the XX and tell me you don't think this is a bit dishonest.

But as luck would have it, all those pay-per-view movies you can get at the hotel are 30 years old.

@Nock , see also Bunnahabhain 18.

Yup. The casual drinkers will be hit the most when they pick this up from the shelves. Distilleries releasing NAS whiskies that would have been fine 25 y/o drams in order to make money at the moment when the demand is high.

Have any of you tried it? It's pretty good and well worth the ~£50 it costs. They've deliberately not called it "20" anywhere or used the words "years" and "old" on the tube, and pretty much everyone I've spoken to has spelled it out as "XX" rather than "Project 20".

I think you're in the minority if you assumed this was 20 years old.

They also didn't hire "20 blenders" - their 20 brand ambassadors chose a cask each and Brian Kinsman, one blender, made an ongoing expression based on those choices. I think it says all of this on the tube, if I remember correctly. The same place that it says "XX" :)

I am sipping on a dram of this at the moment. I quite like it.

@cowfish Not everyone is an expert anyway. Mainland China consumers will gobble this expression up cos it looks old as XX. As said, u really cant say this label is 100% honest.

@Dreambuie dishonest? Or an honest mistake? If you can even call it a mistake. I very much doubt the marketing team who dreamt up the project concept started with the premise "how do we get XX on the label to fool gullible consumers?" "Got it! Let's get twenty ambassadors...."

At worst it feels a bit gimmicky.

I agree that some of the industry's NAS jiggery-pokery doesn't exactly have the consumer's best interests at heart but I don't think they've stooped that low yet!

I bought the Glenfiddich Project XX and I never once thought the XX had anything to do with age. I can imagine that this label will confuse the inexperienced whisky drinkers. But I’ve never seen a twenty year old whisky for €50. Is that even possible? Even inexperienced whisky drinkers will understand that they cannot buy a twenty year old whisky for €50. Right?

But I agree. They should be more clear about it. If only to keep are fellow inexperienced malt mates from making a mistake.

It shouldn't be a problem in the far east – I don't think they use roman numerals :)

@cowfish:

@robbie I believe when Alberta Premium came out with a 30 YO it was less than 50 Euro...

I just had another look at the Glenlivet bottle and it clearly states under the Roman numerals: "Aged Twenty Five Years." Also the price reflects that age. The 'Fiddich does not mention age anywhere. The XX could be slightly misleading to a complete novice, even at that price, but not to any of us "annoying, misinformed, know it all amateur experts" or whatever it is that Dr. Morgan calls anyone who doesn't buy the industry NAS line.

@cowfish I will respectfully disagree with you. I don’t care what the brand ambassadors from Glenfiddich call it. What matters is what is on the label.

99% of people who buy this bottle will never talk with a person from the industry.

99% of people will buy this bottle before they have had the opportunity to taste it.

They will buy it based on the name “Glenfiddich,” the price point, and whatever perceived value they infer from the packaging.

That inferring is key. Hence the deception.

Americans can’t even say Glenfiddich or Glenmorangie correctly. I can not tell you how many bar tenders and self-proclaimed whisky drinkers say “Glen-fid-itch” as in “itch!” I was talking to a guy the other day who made the pilgrimage to Islay two years ago and actually picked up a bottle Ardbeg Perpettum Committee Release at the distillery. He went on to tell me about his lovely visit to “Brook-lad-itch”. I honestly didn’t know what he was talking about for a second.

So my point: People are not smart. They will not read labels closely. They don’t listen closely. They will intuit and infer. This is the reason for all the rules and lawsuits from SWA about labels!

And do not tell me that people are smart enough to understand price. Most liquor store owners don’t understand price. I picked up a bottle of Old Pulteney 21yo last year for $60 on the shelf (or 48.5 GBP). It obviously had been sitting there with neither the customers nor the owner realizing how grossly under priced it was. I have seen Highland Park Dark Origin behind a glass case with a price of $375.99 – in what world does this store owner live??? Who will ever buy this bottle when they can drive half a mile and pay $80? “Someone” is what the manager told me.

To conclude the rant: I think Glenfiddich has put “Project” just above the XX so they have done “just enough” to claim they are not trying to deceive anyone. However, if people see a hip cool package and “infer” that the XX is going to be 20 years old, or had 20 blenders, or is from 20 special casks . . . it will be fine by Glenfiddch.

Yes we can expect label-reading diligence from the experts of this whisky forum, but they might just be a fraction of the whole consumer population.

Would it sound cheaper if they only hired 4 ambassadors? Glenfiddich IV [insert micronized Project on label]

@nock I've spoken to people about this whisky, as I sell whisky for a living: everything I've said has been based upon experience of this specific bottle, rather than general assumption. As yet, no one who I have spoken to has got confused and inferred it was 20 years old – the vast majority have even called it 'Project XX' rather than 'Project 20'. I don't think you're giving the general public enough credit (or in this case maybe too much credit?) if you think they're jumping from XX to 20yo. It hadn't even crossed my mind that people might think that this whisky was 20 years old until this thread popped up – it certainly doesn't seem to be a problem that I've heard about.

I know me telling anecdotes isn't data, but when you get enough anecdotes, it starts approaching being data.

I think I've worked out why this thread has annoyed me – noone's said that they have been misled by the XX, it's all been 'it would mislead other people'. We spend a lot of time in whisky geekdom speaking for other people, and these days I instinctively jump at it when I see it.

Yes, XX could make people think that the whisky is 20yo. I've not seen it in the real world. I'm sorry if I've come over as shouty in my previous replies.

Surely the buyer willing to pay extra for a twenty year old whisky is doing so because they know something about whisky thus the are unlikely to be mislead by the XX, then again maybe not. The use of an X can be used to denote anything from a generation, to a rocket, to a mutant, to a singing competition on TV, to reports of aliens, indeed one of my local beers is named Three Tuns XXX and I must confess that the idea the ale was thirty years old hadn't crossed my mind. :-)

@nickrs don't forget Dos equis beer... also has a double X

No worries @cowfish, we need some shouting here on the forum!

The question of pronunciation is remarkable. I even get some ridicule from my whisky buddies when I insist on pronouncing correctly. Go figure...

@Alexsweden I'm impressed with your desire to pronounce Gaelic properly, my limited knowledge of Cymraeg (Welsh, the most spoken Celtic language in the UK) is virtually no help at all when trying to get whisky names right. :-)

Well one can try at least....

@Alexsweden I've just looked at a simplistic guide to Gaelic pronunciation (cuhwc.org.uk/page/…) and then compared it to a guide to Welsh pronunciation (cuhwc.org.uk/Resources/…). Gaelic and Cymraeg (Welsh) are both languages from Celtic roots spoken in the same bunch of islands so I naively assumed that there must be some similarities in pronunciation I could pick up easily, WRONG!! The best I analogy I've come up with is between Newtonian physics (Welsh) and quantum mechanics (Gaelic), Newton's laws are pretty intuitive whilst quantum mechanics is ferociously hard.

Have you seen this? youtube.com/playlist/…

@cowfish yeah i see ur point that we're just concerned about the casual buyers mistaking this for a 20 y/o. But somehow the XX (20 "ambassadors") on the label seems not as clear as, say, Talisker 57North.