How much is too much?

@newreverie, this is a great topic for discussion.

I buy a bottle based on either 1) experience having tasted it, 2) reputation/reviews from others, or 3) value for the money based on what others are willing to pay for it.

I buy 90% based on my anticipation of what enjoyment I will get from drinking the whisky. I want value for money, the more the better. I seldom pay more than $ 100 for a bottle which I haven't already tasted. So far I have never paid $ 120+ based on anyone else's liking any whisky without having tasted it myself.

What I HAVE done is to spend $ 150+ in order to experience FAMOUS PROMINENT whiskies on Connosr, whiskies which have rated in the Connosr Top 10 rated, or which sport a rare, significant, distinctive taste profile. I have done this because I believe that my whisky education demands that I taste these prominent whiskies, so that I will be able to relate to the conversation which others are having about them. Included in this category are Balvenie Tun 1401 and Glenmorangie Signet. Did I regret those purchases? No. In my opinion you need to have a bottle of Signet even to be able to understand its (so far) unique flavour elements. I don't think one bar sample is enough. I had a bar sample of Signet first which was so-so. Later I understood that was because it had taken too much air. You need to try something like Signet multiple times. And Signet, in particular, degrades with air significantly, so to me if you haven't observed a bottle of Signet, you really don't know Signet. Signet has a period of lush magnificent blossoming, from, for me, about 3 to 6 months of the bottle open. Before that it is a little locked up. After that a little astringent. The astringent Signet is still enjoyable, and may people still love it...but, in the blossoming period, Signet is glorious. As for Tun 1401, Batch 9, opening and tasting it will tell me whether $ 223.50 was too much to have spent on it. Clearly it was not, if I want to re-sell the bottle without having opened it.

I also buy high quality bottles for trade with others, especially when I see them at a good price. Some bottles are always in demand, and if I don't want to drink them, I know friends who do want to drink them. Doing favours for your friends is always a good thing.

Here's more of an "economics answer." Leaving aside potential trades and resells, it's a question of how much you value the drinking experience.

Keep in mind that all prices are just some figure that somebody made up one day. And if that guy was playing the usual role of a seller in a free market, his thought process was probably nothing more than "What's the most that somebody might be willing to pay for this?" The price is NOT based on quality, production costs, or anything else.

The best approach—and this is clearly not specific to whisky, but applicable to all discretionary purchases—is to ask yourself how much you're willing to pay for something FIRST, before you know the price. Then, if the price is less than that, you buy. If it's more, you skip.

If you go about it any other way, you'll get trapped into thinking a high price is actually "a deal" because somewhere else (or someTIME else) the price is even higher. Or you talk yourself into paying whatever inflated price the seller made up because it's the first number tagged on the item in your brain, so you accept it as the item's value.

Anyone interested in this stuff should read Predictably Irrational by Dan Ariely.

This is an excellent subject for discussion and one I have given much personal thought to in order to justify the high price of single malts to myself. When I first started on my malt journey I could always accept that as long as I didn't spend more than fifty pounds on a bottle it was no more expensive than drinking beer down my local pub. I never envisiged that my enjoyment of single malts would become so intense that I would be willing to pay even more for greater experiences of smell and taste. Now I'm looking at buying talisker 18 and many cask strength whiskies and am will spend up to about 80 pounds for that privilege . I am resigned to the fact that I'll probably go to about 110 in the future for the odd very special bottling. After this I feel it starts to become too much.I've accepted the fact that I've missed the Macallan boat!

@maltmate302 Your comment about spending 50 pounds to drink beer at a pub is a great way to rationalize purchasing whisky that you like. My wife and I do something similar when we dine out. A night out, typically can cost $200. We often leave the restaurant thinking "wow, we just spend $200.00 for not so great food and an equally not great wine". What we do now is go get a couple of good steaks, and a premium wine and cook at home. Fraction of the cost and much more enjoyable.

Purchasing a good whisky in my mind can be treated the same way. Like you said, consider avoiding the bar and go buy a whisky you want.

I look at it another way. A 750ml bottle contains about 25 1 oz pours. So a $100 bottle is costing me about $4 a drink. That seems quite reasonable to me considering a lesser quality spirit would easily cost 3 or 4 times that in a bar/restaurant. That doesn't mean I only by $100 bottles...but it is how I justify spending $150 on an occasional purchase. Plus, wine drinkers often drop $50 or $100 on a bottle that provides 5 glasses and must be (for the most part) drunk in a day or so. A bottle of whisky can provide dozens of experiences spread over a year or longer.

@broadwayblue , yeah, whisky—even pretty expensive whisky—is a much better deal than wine, per glass.

And per glass is the right way to think about prices in my book, though I didn't mention it above. My pour sizes vary a lot and I used to wonder how big they were on average—really, I wondered how many glasses I got out of a bottle. So I filled an empty bottle with water and poured out glass after glass until the bottle was empty. 29 pours. So 29 is my magic number. Round to 30 and that means a $60 bottle is $2/pour, and $90 bottle is $3/pour, and so on. Still more expensive than any beer I buy, but not terrible. (And again, much cheaper than wine!)

And do we pay more for samples and small bottles? Yep. Is that stupid? No! I think most of us would agree that the first pour of a whisky we've never had is more valuable than the 29th. Whisky curiosity is a powerful force.

What I should have added was that I meant that whisky, at a price point of 50 pounds and an abv of 40%,costs roughly the same amount, per unit of alcohol, as drinking beer in a pub.

On further review I agree with both Broadway blue and OIJas opinions as well.I could certainty see myself going for a major purchase in the future. I also have birthday's and Christmas's as well and we all deserve the odd treat!

Whisky dollars are scarce, so to make a purchasing decision, I use a spreadsheet. You can decide whether this is fun or totally nerdy. In any case, I use it to track which bottles my retailers sell what and for how much. The most useful part is that I tag each bottle with a "desirability" score. I filter on, say, on those that I've tagged 7 and higher. Then I sort by price. Bam—it's easy to see what bottles I expect to get the best bang from.

For this to work for anyone, you have to at least somewhat enjoy dinking around in Excel. I do. In an odd idle moment, I like to poke through my list and think about what I'd like to buy next. Mostly, though, I think it helps me avoid poor impulse buys.

Impressive! It's a great achievement to have come up with your very own whisky value algorithm. At least you'll be able to avoid any rash purchasing decisions with this methodology.

Since I became a father in Nov'14 I don't 'go out' anymore anyway - so I figure that budget (roughly 120€ / 150$ per month) is fair game to buy Whisky with.

That's one really nice bottle each month, and I never feel guilty splashing a good 300 bucks on a bottle every now and then after spending 95% of my time providing & taking good care of my wife & son - I figure I've earned it :-D

@Jules I do something similar to you. I try to stick with a budget of less than $150/month. For the most part I keep to that and it has served me well. I do get into trouble when I see good deals on bottles I really enjoy, buy duplicates of limited bottlings, or buy ones I can trade with friends.

@maltmate302, don't be too impressed! I'm not doing much more than slapping a "9" on Laphroaig 10 CS, and "8" on Ardbeg 10, and a "7" on Talisker DE.

The biggest reason to have a like that, I think, is to help you avoid less worthy impulse buys. I know that my little eletronic chicken scratch back home says that bottles A, B, and C are my top buys, so why pick up random bottle X when it catches my eye in some shop? I don't.

If I had much more money to spend on it, I would really enjoy the "buy on a whim and give it a whirl" approach, but the wallet says no!

@Jules

First .... congratulations! Fatherhood is a wonderful thing.

Second: I really like your idea. I've barely gone out since I became a father in 2007, and I doubt (I hope) I haven't spent $10k on whisky in that time... Should I catch up with some big ticket items?

I can see myself buying a nice bottle a month, but not sure if I drink a bottle a moth.

Which brings me to my take on the title of this thread: How much is too much?

One of the problems with fora such as this is that it increases knowledge of what is out there and excitement to try it. I think this has contributed to my exponential increase in whisky purchasing. As I fall behind in my drinking and the whiskies sound better, and the good ones become more limited in availability, it becomes "stock up while I can".

So my question is: do sites like Connosr help the industry by spurring purchases? And when is your collection so big there's no chance you'll ever drink every bottle in it even if you don't buy another?

I think I've reached that point. But I still have bottles I want to buy. Right now I want an A'Bunadh 50 for when I'm 50, some Stagg and Weller, and a few more Amrut (unpeated) cask strength (I only have unopened bottles of the 2007 bottling). Even though I'll likely never get through it all.

SO what is a Connosr to do?

oops... bolded when I should have line breaked

@Jules, it may seem far away now, but the day will come when junior, or your little princess, decides to sample a few from dad's private stock, We all want what is best for our children, but for heaven's sake, please build a lower-shelf-wall-of-defence; a.k.a. low hanging fruit. I offer this advice from my personal eperiences growing up and also as a a parent of some really great kids...but they are kids after all...and the apple may not fall far from the tree...my college-aged son enjoys Macallan 12 YO.

Congratulations on your new bundle of joy.

@Nozinan , have you thought about getting some big sample bottles that would enable you to, say, open a new bottle from your stash, drink enough to enjoy it & "scratch it off your list," and then transfer the rest into a sample bottle for some late date?

Kicking samples down the road like this might let you move through your closed bottles more quickly without actually drinking more quickly.

@ Paddock Thanks for the advice :-) Yes I have thought about that, actually...

@ Nozinan Well, I don't buy exactly one bottle each month, but I prob do average 10-12 new bottles a year. Thing is, I have a brother-in-law, as well as a few friends, who regularly like to 'sample' my collection, so it goes down quicker than you'd think!

My take on life is that great things are made even greater by sharing them with others. For what good is a great experience if you're the only one to whom you can talk about it...?

@OlJas

I DO decant into smaller bottles for later drinking, specifically all my different batches of A'Bunadh. It doesn't help. I still have a backlog of things to open.

@Jules

I agree 100% . If you take any excellent malt, I enjoy a dram of it more when I'm with good company than the same liquid from the same bottle if I were to drink it alone. That's why I rarely have a dram on my own, and because everyone has busy lives, it's why I'm so slow in consuming my collection.

But out of curiosity, how do people feel about the effect of fora such as this one on their purchase habits?

@Nozinan This forum, the beer forums, music/audio forums and the internet with all it's vast (mis?)information make me spend EXPONENTIALLY more money on stuff that I would otherwise be ignorant of. Curiosity killed the cat and his wallet. The breadth of information and ceaseless choices isn;'necessarily a good thing.

Speaking of determining value...how do you decide how high to go on a discontinued bottle? For example, I've seen a lot of praise for Macallan CS here. Before I knew how much people liked it I passed on a bottle which was recommended to me by a shop owner a couple years back. I recently went back to the store only to find that the price had been raised from ~$60 to nearly $100. Now if I had previously tasted and loved it I could probably justify the extra cost...but for a first time buyer it gives me pause.

@broadwayblue, the value of a bottle is in the eye of the beholder. I really like Balvenie 10 yo Founders Reserve, so I put aside a few bottles, at around $ 42 each three years ago (production of them had already been discontinued for 2 years at that point). I see now on wine-searcher.com that the average world price is $ 159. Would I pay that for Balvenie 10 Founders Reserve? Probably only if I were a billionaire. But SOMEBODY is apparently willing to pay it.

As for Macallan CS for $ 100, I too remember the $ 60 days, but around here those days were about 3-4 years ago. Mac CS for $ 100 is not cheap, but it is RELATIVELY good value as current Macallans go...which is a way of saying that Macallans over 10 years old have gotten ridiculously expensive. When I saw that Mac CS was going to be discontinued, about 2 years ago, I picked up a couple of extra bottles (@ $80 plus tax each) at the last minute of its availability here. I am very glad that I did. It has maybe double the flavour density of Macallan 12 Sherry Oak.

(In an aside, I consider Mac CS to be the ideal restorative additive to 'over the hill' sherried malts. 8+ yo wood-aged rum works well for bourbon matured malts, bourbons, ryes, and most Irish whiskies, but will not work well for sherried whiskies. Yes, it is very expensive for this purpose at $ 100 per bottle. Oddly, I have found my second best sherry-restorative additive to be that most abhorrent of whiskies Tangle Ridge. Tangle Ridge will deliver sherry flavour to you, and you don't have to worry about tasting ANY of the 100% rye from which it is made. The sherry completely obliterates that. And Tangle Ridge is cheap, in the US, anyway.)

@broadwayblue

Not sure I would pay $100 for a Mac CS, but I'm lucky enough to own two and a half bottles. I wouldn't have paid $80 either until I tried it (got my first bottle in a trade), and shortly after found a cache selling at $73 tax included so I bougt 2 for me and a few for a friend.

From a quality perspective, I think that at current comparative prices it's likely worth it. If I liked it and had no extra, I would probably buy one. If I were looking to sell it in the future, consider that in The summer the same expression was selling on the whisky exchange for £125.

@Nozinan As this forum can also prevent expenditure on a bottle, refinement is a word I would use over 'more'.

Forums have their social and informational objectives - the personalities that join and participate likely all share similar values on the community and thirst for knowledge concept.

Collectors also have like personalities (some positive, some as not) so you might be purchasing more, you might not (there are many who appreciate whiskey without coming to such sites). It would be interesting to see what other items people on Connosr have collected over the years or if it started w whiskey.

What is true is that you are likely enjoying the experience more because of sites like Connosr. If you are purchasing more, it is because you feel compelled to do so based on information and desire.

@JayRain

Please don't misunderstand...I enjoy interacting on Connosr. I just think that because there are so many enthusiasts and so many positive reviews, it encourages many of us to go beyond our usual purchasing patterns.

I think we end up tasting a larger variety of good whisky, and probably we are able to make more educated and successful choices. But more choices in general. Or in my case, I end up with a bigger backlog of what I think will be better and more enjoyable whisky...

@Nozinan Was not reading anything into your thoughts - just giving my answer to your question.

@broadwayblue, I have a few bottles of Macallan Cs tucked away. The Ontario price was $100 in 2013. I purchased a few and then acquired a few more due to the huge effort of friends; Nozinan came through in spades! Thanks buddy!!

I would pay $100 for Macallan CS.

@paddockjudge

You'd have more in your stash if you hadn't tried to convince me it was a good whisky... Thanks again...

@Nozinan, You have been a substantial supporter of my Macallan CS habit. I suppose another half-dozen bottles, or more, would have been warmly welcomed into my home, but what the heck, "How much is too much?"

@paddockjudge My favorite rum is flor de cana centario 21. It was only produced once to celebrate the turn of the century. It was a large run of over 100,000 bottles, but it was a great rum and after 15 years it is scarce. I have 5 bottles here, 5 at my dads. There are some bottles, especially ones that one day cannot be replaced that you can never have too much.

@newreverie, well put. There are a few 'classics' I have managed to harvest and preserve for future enjoyment. It is great fun to share these with other 'classics' owners.