So, what are you drinking now?

@paddockjudge , the punch in your face wasn't a response to differing opinions. That would be incredibly stupid and childish. It was a promised result if you were to ever repeat your online vitriol to me in person. I'm sure you can appreciate the difference.

@MadSingleMalt, so very nice to receive a mention from you again. Do both of you share that sentiment? I relish the opportunity to share a drink with you or your alter ego.

Bullying comes in many forms, but you have not yet mastered the technique. It is probably best for you to dip your plume in the ink well again, your words are becoming rather transparent.... how prophetic your eponym has become, time to get back on topic @MadSingleMalt.

@paddockjudge , I strongly suspect you think I'm someone else. I can't otherwise explain the animosity or the weird allusions you make in your posts to me.

Regardless, I suggest we drop this; I'm sure nobody else wants to see Connosr's most popular thread littered with our back-and-forth. If you care to continue it, "follow" me or "buddy" me or whatever the thing is so you can private message me, and pick it up there.

Back on topic, I think my next whisky will be an indie bottling of Benrinnes that's sitting open on my shelf and not getting much love. It's kind of a "bleh" whisky, nothing special, no pizzazz—just OK neat and decent on ice.

I bought it because it was a 1997 vintage (a significant year to me), but it's disappointed me big-time. Even so, it's a fine summer whisky, so I should take advantage of the conditions to put a dent in it.

@MadSingleMalt, I'm here for the whisky.

I finally found a way to make my Islay Mist 8 palatable. Adding ice toned down the grain whisky sweetness and allowed the peat (light though it may be) to come through. Bonus points for a cold drink on a hot day. Also, I enjoyed some with club soda yesterday. Very refreshing.

I'm capping off the evening with a wee dram of my nearly empty Springbank 10. There's less than a third of the bottle left. I'll be very sad to see this one go.

@OdysseusUnbound, it sounds as if you did not like the sweet component of your Islay Mist 8 yo and therefore attributed it to the "grain whisky". But why would you think that? Scottish "grain whiskies" are routinely distilled above 90% abv, near vodka levels, then diluted to 40% abv, before blending. There isn't a whole lot of flavour density left. The malt whisky in Islay Mist, almost always attributed to Laphroaig, was probably diluted from a cask strength of around 55-58% abv down to 40% abv before being blended into the mix. Even granting that the "grain" may be 2/3rds of the total blend volume, it still seems likely that the sweetness you tasted came mainly from the Laphroaig or from added caramel. Laphroaig malt is often quite sweet, e.g. Quarter Cask. This scapegoating of the grain whisky for what you didn't like sounds to me to be simply a bias towards malt whiskies, especially Islay malt whiskies, and against grain whiskies.

And maybe caramel was added too? That might be enough to explaiin it right there.

For the record, again, I am not a big fan of most blended Scotch whiskies. My primary reason is not an opinion of any innate inferiority of whisky made from grains other than barley, but is that I find that many, maybe most blended Scotch whiskies have poor flavour combining. My second reason for tending not to like most blends is low flavour density resulting mainly from that majority-by-volume-grain-whisky-content high abv distillation followed by excessive dilution and low ABV.

@Victor My comments may indeed be biased toward malt whisky. You may be right on that count. I purchase cheap blended scotches to leave at my in-laws' place so I don't have to drag booze around with me. My mother in law drinks Wiser's Deluxe with coke and my father in law drinks beer I don't like, so leaving scotch there is my solution. I don't leave a good bottle there because their house is a social gathering spot and people always feel free to help themselves to whatever is around.

As to added caramel colouring, I was under the impression that it is quite bitter. I have read that comment by several blenders and industry people. Are they wrong?

@Victor Here's another admission: I may want the impossible. I'd love something inexpensive that's almost as good as Laphroaig 10 or Ardbeg 10. It's just a fantasy, I'm sure.

Not wrong, to the best of my knowledge. Caramel is burnt sugar, so there should be both a sweet component and a bitter component. How much bitterness? Someone has probably found a way to put numbers on bitterness. I am sure it depends on how much caramel is used. How much that bitterness is tasted I am sure depends also on how all of the flavours of the whisky combine together. For example, if a sweet-peat-y whisky is mixed with caramel, one could internally easily interpret the resultant more bitter overall flavour as having derived from slightly bitter peat, rather than from sweet peat + caramel.

Some allege that one cannot taste "caramel colouring". I taste it. Jim Murray tastes it. And yes, there is a little bit of bitterness in it.

@OdysseusUnbound, there is absolutely nothing whatsoever wrong with wanting to drink very good whisky on the cheap!!!

If you did not have to deal with the LCBO that Laphroaig 10 and Ardbeg 10 would be very reasonably priced for you, at least as of 2017. And if things were a little different for your supply situation you could buy and drink all you want of the magnificent Laphroaig 10 Cask Strength for around US$ 65 per bottle.

Yep, it sounds like what @OdysseusUnbound really wants is to live in California where Laphroaig 10 is ~$35/ bottle. No need for cheap substitutes! :)

I, too, have always heard that E150 ("caramel") is totally bit and not sweet in the least. Hearsay, but consistent hearsay.

@Victor , do you know when in the overall scotch grain whisky production process that high-ABV "almost vodka" is diluted down to 40%? Specifically:

•Do they cask it at 90%+ and dilute it finally at the time of blending & bottling?

•Or do they dilute it down (say, to 63.5% like malt whisky) before it goes into the cask?

In addition to being generally interested, I've long had a mind to do the math and figure out how much unaged tap water is in a typical 40% ABV blended scotch, and that point makes all the difference. Thanks!

@MadSingleMalt, no, I do not know at what specific strength the Scottish grain whiskies are typically casked prior to any final dilution of the wood-matured products prior to blending. Like you, I would like to know the details.

@Victor $65 USD is about $82 CAD. If I saw Laphroaig 10 Cask Strength for that price, I'd probably pass out from sheer joy. And if I could get Laphroaig 10 for $35 USD (approx $45 CAD) I'd probably be inebriated most of the time.

@Victor , I spent a few minutes googling and could find no clear info on the typical casking strength of scotch grain whisky. Malt Madness has a topic about "cask strength" that says, "Cask strength grain whiskies often have a higher ABV than [cask strength] malt whiskies." That could imply that that grain whisky goes into the cask at a higher ABV, but it could also just be a reflection of the shorter maturation time that grain whisky is often given—i.e., less "angels' share."

maltmadness.com/whisky-lexicon/…

So no real answer, I guess. Does anyone know whom we could ask, in the industry maybe?

Also, the industrial parent company of an Irish grain whisky distillery in Dundalk, Ireland (somehow tied to the Teelings) says on their bland corporate website that they dilute their grain whiskey newmake to 65%.

162group.com/industrial

I don't know that this tidbit is really worth all that much to the discussion here, but it's one of the few data points I can find from my Google search, so I figured I'd toss it in here.

---

Unless I learn otherwise, I guess I'm assuming grain whisky is casked at an ABV in the mid-60s. But I gotta say, that doesn't really make sense to me. For a product you're trying to produce cheaply and in great volumes, why bother adding water before it spends those minimum-three years in the barrel? If I was trying to crank out this stuff, I'd age it at 90% and then just add all the tap water at the last minute.

@MadSingleMalt, I reason it out about the same way that you do. The cooperage will go farther if the grain whisky is undiluted prior to casking. On the other hand, if the whisky is partially diluted prior to casking, then not only will more cooperage be used, but the corresponding wood influence per unit of 40% abv grain whisky final product will be greater. It will be interesting to see if we can get any more concrete information on the subject.

@Victor an informative article regarding the use of caramel (E150a). As I suspected, it appears there is little sweet impact from it. whiskyscience.blogspot.co.nz/2011/04/…

@Hewie, thank you for posting that extremely informative and detailed article about E150a caramel as used in Scotch whisky. Specific mention of sugar influence can only be found through the article's link to "sugar" in paragraph 5, which states that E 150a contains 10-20% simple sugars and has an overall bitter flavour. While I do not doubt that the bitter flavour of the additive E150a overshadows the sweet component in the overall flavour of the additive 'caramel', I do maintain that the sweet component does also simultaneously bolster the overall sweet component of the whisky to which it is added, and is tastable. Are the proportions of the added E150a sweet influence small or large? That is a subjective and individual assessment I would say. I notice the increased sweet influence, mostly because it tastes to me very artificial and unlike the sweet flavours from oak. Others may not notice these added artificial sweet flavours at all.

...and also why I don't usually like most cocktails very much: because I like the taste of the sweeteners used in cocktails much less than I like the taste of the sweet component of whiskies deriving only from oak sugars.

Batch variation cognitive dissonance! @dramlette insisted upon buying a new bottle of Sazerac Rye today when she spotted it in the store. (Yes, @Nozinan, entirely her purchase initiative.) I have not bought a second bottle after my first one purchased in about 2010 because that first bottle was b-o-r-i-n-g with little flavour and no oomph until it was open well over 2 years. This new bottle today is great from the git-go...better from moment one than that first bottle had ever attained. Big spice and plenty of the sort of pizzazz completely missing from that first bottle. The Batch Variation pendulum can swing both ways. This is batch variation to the good. Go figure.

@Victor Why are you referencing me? I've no opinion on Sazerac rye. And it looks like a good thing she bought it!

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

Oh wait.... now I understand. I agree, it doesn't count as one of your 10...

I caved and opened my bottle of Wiser's Dissertation. I'm on my 2nd dram now. I admit that I'm firmly in a honeymoon phase with a new bottle and all, but I'm very pleased thus far. I may need to find a backup bottle of this juice. I don't see this one lasting very long in my cabinet. For something so Rye-forward (I believe it's 87% Rye) it's remarkably smooth.

@OdysseusUnbound I've only had it a couple of times before being flattened by a virus the last week or so. It is my favourite Wiser's release up till now (I admit I have not tasted as broadly as others). I agree with wanting to have a backup for sometime in the future.

I'm with you both, @OdysseusUnbound and @Nozinan, I too have stocked up with a few bottles of Dissertation. It's really quite excellent.

@Nozinan, that Melrose Rare 12 Diamond Blended Whiskey is a little better this time than I remembered it. A trace varnish-y, but that note doesn't bother me the way it does some people. I have had a lot worse. This dram tonight would rate 80 points from me. I am enjoying it tonight, which is a bit of a surprise. Maybe I am in the optimal mood tonight for enjoying the taste of varnish.

The Corryvreckan L13 240 has a nice nose at this point, as it did previously. In the mouth it is righteously intense, as Corryvreckan tends to be. The sour note which is what I remember disliking from before, seems a bit lessened, which improves the overall effect in the mouth. Eleven months ago I reviewed this still-85%-full bottle at 77 points. I rate this taste tonight at 83 points.

@Victor It appears as though things are looking up for you with those bottles.

When I taste an Islay powerhouse one of the things I like is a hint of lemon citrus in both the nose and the palate. I'm getting a lot of that now in the tea I'm sipping...

Highland park 12yo

Lagavulin 8 year first without water, then with. Like them both, but as usual, prefer without. @Nozinan - plenty of lemon both ways. :-)